Young Penfold gives it a go!

Early half  of 2007 I was looking for a new apartment and a friend of mine recommended I have a look at his place on a subsoi of suk soi22. I jumped out of a taxi and walked to the reception area where a girl had her back to me filing some stuff away.

Call it cliche but it was almost as if she turned round in slow mo to some camp romance music from a chick flick. 5’6, big piercing brown eyes, huge pouting lips that are ideal for (ill leave that to your imagination) curly flowing funky haircut and 1 of the tightest bodies iv ever seen, especially in her skimpy and slightly relieving office gear. I was in love.

The apartment could of been a fucking student bedsit caked in piss and aids for all i cared, i had to move in so i could see this babe everyday. Even more to my suprise she was flirting outrageously with me and when we were filling out the paperwork she grinned “so will you be moving in alone or with your girlfriend?” I didnt have one at the time and replied “no”.

Her face cracked a huge smile

To cut to the chase over the next few weeks i managed to bag her number, and we went on a few dates. After the fourth date i got her knickers down. I was punching well above my weight with her. Thats right, even SHE was out of my league.

We’d hook up after she finished work but she admitted she had a thai BF and that we had no future, but she was up for slap n tickle on the side. No dramas. She was obviously bowled over by my sexual prowess.
Over the course of the next few weeks I met my now GF who is a uni girl in Asok. After about 2 weeks of us being together she moved in (thai girls have a habit of doing this so discreetly).

Like clockwork when my GF would leave for her afternoon lectures within 5minutes id hear high heels coming up the stairs and a hurried knock at my door. I’d open the door and within seconds, without so much as sharing a word shed be on all 4’s on the receiving end of a large portion of Penfold. 10minutes and a sackful later he knickers would be restored, and she would scuttle back downstairs. What a girl.

After i moved back to England we kind of lost touch with only fleeting appearances on MSN, but she owned up to having a jap boyfriend as well as the thai guy, who was sending her 50k baht a month and made her quit her job at the apartment. Best of luck to her i thought as she was sweethearted and kind. Plus a beast in the sack which is a plus in anyones book (although not as good as me).

Now….lets call this next bit ‘Chapter 2′

One day last week it was 230pm and I was at a loose end. I had 3 options. Beat myself off to the same old tired porn, go to the gym, or get a soapie. The gym was never going to win, so I opted for a soapie. I was feeling unadventurous and thought id stick with an old favourite in Poseidon. (I had thought this place had the best selection around until I visited Nataree today – report to follow)

I hopped in a taxi to Suttisan MRT and walked the rest. I bounced up the stairs and ordered a beer. I don’t care what you say 132baht for a small Singha is a ripoff as most soapies charge less for a large 1. Another thing that got up my nose was I ordered 2 beers and both times paid with 140baht. Neither time did the bitch bring me my change. ‒Big deal” your thinking, ‒stop being a measly prick its 8baht” but to be offered my own change would be nice and maybe I am a measly prick. And while we are on the subject I swear blind the papasan quoted the Thai guy next to me cheaper rates.

Speaking of the papasan, he was flamboyantly camp and before prices for the girls were discussed he spent 2-3minutes flirting outrageously with me. Some might say I do look a TAD gay, but surely he could tell I wasn’t that way inclined as I was minutes away from renting some female ass to slam in a bathtub. This has been touched on before but how the fuck do these guys know what girls give best service and stuff like that? Iv been put off by papasans who are too clued up.

Anyway on to the cut n thrust of this post. As anyone knows in Poseidon you often see the girls walking past and getting into the fishbowl. I caught a girl walk past with a funky purple dress but only caught her from behind and she looked hot. This counts for nothing in Asia as I have lost count the amount of times I’ve seen a leggy long haired spinner from behind only to catch a glimpse of her face and she has either a hammer-jaw or teeth like a smashed piano. Saying that we’re in Poseidon here so your not going to encounter any freaks.

As she hopped into the bowl I instantly recognized her but couldn’t put my finger on it. After best part of a minute it clicked. It was the same svelt receptionist that would sneak into my room in her office clothes for a roll in the hay as soon as my GF left my apartment. The same girl who couldn’t meet me 2 weeks before as she was living with her new jap boyfriend who was supplying her 50k baht a month, but left me an offline MSN message 5 days after asking if I was free to meet.

To say I was stunned was an understatement.

When we locked eyes you could tell she wanted to ground to open and swallow her up. She went bright red and the loss of face was evident. The papasan (ever the opportunist) then noticed the eye contact and tried to encourage me. I gracefully declined.

Immediately I SMS’ed 5-6 mates who knew her and within 2 minutes my inbox filled

‒What a slut”, ‒Please get her knickers down”, ‒I always thought she was a whore” and ‒You cant make this shit up” as some of the responses.

I ended up choosing a small dark racy girl with a funky sharp curly haircut and huge tits. She got off on watching me put her through the ringer in the mirror and we exchanged digits.

Getting back on track, the jist of this post is how there’s such a fine line in P4P in this city. This girl has a guy that gives her 50k a month, yet she’s still flogging her mutton in a soapie.

When we were seeing each other she earned roughly 20k baht at the apartment and she lived onsite. We would grab food and she would insist on splitting the bill, and if we went drinking she would demand she chip in, so its not as if this girl was on the take or looking for a meal ticket.

Yet here she is ready to pawn off her holy of holys to the highest bidder.

Another case in point. A very good friend of my GFs is a model who came as 1 of the runners up in Miss Thailand a year or 2 back. Stunning she is, 175cm tall, awesome physique and face of an angel. She has a Korean guy she met at a fashion show that send her 100,000k baht a month. He comes to Bangkok once a month maybe for just 1 night and they meet up. He proceeds to bang the snot out of her then he leaves. Effectively thats 100,000baht for long-time. Is she then classed as a hooker?

When you drill it down she is effectively spreading her legs for cash as she told me she doesn’t particularly like the guy.

So you can class 1 of the Miss Thailand’s as a working girl? She’s sleeping with someone she wouldn’t sleep with unless he was stuffing her a fistful of the kings sheets.

What about stories of the penthouse models and budding VJs you get at high end massage houses?

I know 1 particularly well off girl who’s dad is high in the Thai police and her mom owns her own company. She drives and its all paid for by mommy and daddy. Her parents give her an allowance of 25k a month. Mommy and daddy however don’t know about the 3 guys she has on the books in Singapore, UK and Norway sending her roughly 15k baht a month each, who also fly her out to wherever they are locally in asia when they want some action.

Going to your local nightclub for a dance and a party? Iv had soapie girls invite me to join them and a group of there massage girls to party at the likes of Santika, Route66, Flix, Hollywood to share there whisky.

The Posiedon girl i eventually chose told me last night her and 10 fellow bath-servants went to Route66 and had a skinful.

Next time you see a table of hot girls parting at your local nightclub round a table, shaking there asses and glugging whisky, how the hell are you meant to know there background? Maybe you break the ice and make chit-chat? Conversation turns to what she does for a living. “Im a glorified hooker that showers and services ferangs and japs” cant see that happening.

How many times have you heard mamasams quote sideliners as being students? I went to Nataree massage the other day (so cool) and there must of been EASILY 50+ sideliners and 3 fishbowl girls at 3pm. All stunning and i could’nt picture 1 being over 22years old. Papa said they are all students. By the time id finished spraying my sexy-thick piss over my shower-girl, the fishbowl was packed and just as many sideliners.

Point being – hell if I know but people always ask where are the normal girls – or what is a working girl or what is the difference between a girl who has never sold it or not? The line is really blurry around these parts but isn’t that the good part?

back to flogging some totty…

80 thoughts on “Young Penfold gives it a go!”

  1. I think when you go to a disco (eg. RCA) the percentage of women that are whores is through the roof. Look at all the tatoos. Why there no point going RCA – chasing whores. Just go Poseiden. see them there. A lot less effort.

  2. r – I think it is a little harsh and I don’t think the precentage is that high. I also know a lot of girls with tats who never worked like that. That is not the barometer in my opinion.

    I also think things are blurry when it comes to all of this bringing in the sponsor notion of it all. All very gray indeed so tough to make a call I guess.

    Interesting stuff.

  3. RE: model “Is she then classed as a hooker?”

    I would say yes. she would say no. How she can think she isn’t? – I dont know. But in my experience I can be fairly sure that she would think that she is not. Even though she fulfills the very definition of hookerism:

    “She’s sleeping with someone she wouldn’t sleep with unless he was stuffing her a fistful of the kings sheets”.

    this will be lost on her.

  4. I see this in BKK and JKT all the time: ‘model’ has a very loose definition (in fact, almost every pretty Indonesian girl I know has modeled somewhere!), and all models I know there are open to some close encounters for a certain amount. I’m just shocked at the amount, 100 000 baht? $100 will get you in the good graces of a Jakarta Playboy model. Even in Singapore models make a pittance (I know a girl who runs a model agency), usually work a normal job, and are also looking for supplements on the side.
    And amen to that!

  5. These discussions can quickly devolve into ‘all women are whores’ which I don’t think is true. I’ve had sex with women I genuinely love where money was not even in the equation in the tiniest way, and a few of them had a lot more money than me when I had practically none so if there were any hookerism it was my selling my dick, which is comical. I’ve also had my balls expertly rubbed at Orchid and been finished off for 1000 by a girl who seemed genuinely nice.

    Bottom line, I always use this example. If I give a girl (or a guy for that matter) $100 for a blowjob, we’re engaging in a business transaction called prostitution. On the other extreme is the girl you really and truly love. However, when a 25 year old former Miss New Jersey runner up married a 45 year old balding, portly hedge fund manager I don’t know what to call it. Gray area might be best,and of course there are so many shades of that out there.

  6. Very interesting post! One year ago I discovered that a girl working as a receptionist at a Sukhumvit-hotel, also did a good job in an MP. In fact I liked that.

    When I worked in Mumbai I found out there were secret high-society networks for p4p. In fact this meant that many well-paid girls in the fashion- and movie-industry were available for paid sex. The amounts however were enormous: tens or even hundreds of thousands of rupees! Normally these girls were only available for politicians and rich businessmen.

  7. Good story YP
    To the larger question – are all women whores and all men driven by sex? – yep pretty much. If you point to examples where women or men don’t fit such ‘harsh’ stereotypes you can normally find a reason why they couldn’t follow their inner programming.

  8. In my experience in Thailand model=prostitute. There are plenty of good girls but all the model (some exceptions) are available for entertainment. You can go to any modeling agency in Bkk and book the girls for entertainment for about 35,000 baht per day. It’s not for a photo shoot, you don’t even need a camera. So yeah they sleep with you and you tip them.

    Thais will do anything for money if they think no one will find out about it.

  9. “Thais will do anything for money if they think no one will find out about it”

    that is such a great line. and i think very valid.

  10. “are all women whores and all men driven by sex?”

    I would definitely agree with YR on this, just in general, I’ve never had a sexual encounter that didn’t involve some kind of financial transaction, wether it was buying drinks, a meal, the act itself, etc.

    I also agree on the Thailand model = prossie for the majority of cases. I once met a uni student who was living in a tiny, cramped 1 roomed apartment out in Lat Prao, several weeks after we met she was discovered by a modelling agency, and became a model. She told me many stories of ‘casting couches’ and the like, but the biggest thing was that once she’d become a model, she thought she had to increase/improve her material possessions in order to fit in with her newfound social status. She bought a car, a bigger apartment, a new wardrobe, and a laptop among other things. There just wasn’t enough modelling work to pay for all the new additions and improvements and she ended up working in a MP in soi 33 on the side, and now has German, American and French supporters. From my understanding, this seems to be the case with a lot of Thai models and why they resort to prostitution

  11. “I went to Nataree” and ALL the girls were “stunning” (caps added).



  12. Just finished reading a book recommended to me called “Thailand Fever” (one page in English and the opposite the same in Thai) published by
    Helps explain all of the the things that YP experienced and has convinced me to take my time, jai yen, and enjoy all of the wonderful experiences with these Thai girls before even vaguely contemplating a long term commitment. Back for our 7th trip since 2006 very soon.

  13. Shopping seems to be the major driving force behind the lines being blurred her imho. The “borderline” girls I’ve known that won’t take money for sex explicitly will always take money if you say it’s for shopping. Does “Sex for Shopping” make you a prostitute? Of course but perhaps not in some girls minds.

    On a somewhat related note, the promotion girl at the Duke last night was wearing here usual clingy green promo outfit last night. Her shift ended and she went to change her outfit before leaving. When she came out to get her card signed she was wearing a tight little Uni outfit. From stories and personal experience, promo girls are definitely available for some side shopping money. Have to find out about the girl from last night for sure. Anybody know where I can get an Emporium or Siam Paragon Mall shopping catalog? Could help break the ice.

  14. I wouldn’t say that all women in world are whores. But in Bangkok – I think the number could be quite shocking. There is of course out and outs. Then there is this phenomenon of monthly and/or discretionry payments, shopping trips etc. that can be professionalism in a lot of cases.

    Within an RCA night out – I think the number of girls that “work” is very high. Good girls dont really have the money to go out like this.

    I think tatoo is not absolute barometer – but going by the numbers it is some form of indicator. Also, in RCA you see many male-female pairings that aren’t likely to have occured organically. Often older thai men with really hot ladies. of course they picking up the drinking tab – and i imagine they getting f*cked by at least one of the girls to make this all worthwhile for them.

  15. As long as a girl receives money from a guy from abroad there is something wrong.

    It is not about tatoos or anything but about how she makes a living.
    Therefore I don’t understand what is surprising in the fact that a girl with a thai BF, a Japanese sponsor and quite a few gigs ends up in a soapie!!!

  16. suk – what do you mean by something wrong? not sure I get u there.

    I think the harder discussion to have is how do you explain or quantify the grayer areas of a tx where guys are paying for things and girls are offering their company and sometimes sex.

    I think in any situation where this happens – branding the girl a whore or a prostitute seems a bit much to me.

    So I take my gf out for dinner and drinks and later we sleep together – is she a whore?

    I meet a girl on RCA – an office girl. Yes – there are some there. The, no good girls go out cliche is pretty tiring. So I offer this girl a drink. We party together. Many drinks. Maybe even dinner after hours. Then my pad, even her room and we end up having sex. She is whore?

    Seems weird folks. Now put that girl in the MP selling her ass and she is whore – but is that the situation or the process?

    I always wanted to write about this but not sure how to take it but this simple classification seems too general and does that mean any guy who engages in this is a low life or doing something wrong?

    all gets pretty deep really.

  17. This is where we hit the realm of TOK/Philosophy (the Theory of Knowledge)

    Words are only the meaning that we attach to them. The word ‘whore’ carries derogratory meaning, and the most agreed on definition of ‘whore’ is a woman that trades sex for something else, usually money. So if a girl compensates for a night out on the town, a few drinks, etc with sex, does that make her a whore? If so, then the definition would stretch across nearly all women. The problem with that definition is that it can’t distinguish between the women who have sex with the man just cos they want to, with nothing that has occured in the preceding hours (ie dinner, drinks, etc) and nothing wanted in the future (ie a relationship) having anything to do with it. The purpose of sex is to reproduce, so if you enter into a one-night stand or a several night stand with a woman with no intention of reproducing, then both parties have to get something out of it, otherwise they wouldn’t enter into it. If a woman didn’t get anything out or want anything out of a short-term relationship with a man, there’s no way she would enter into it and have sex with the man. Does this then make her a whore, as she is trading sex with the man for whatever she is getting out of it?

    This is getting waaaaay too deep, so I’ll stop now :p Who would’ve thought that this website could turn philosophical? 😉

  18. I’m guessing strongly that the Japanese 50K didn’t — or doesn’t now — esist. Maybe never did.

  19. Personally I like the Dick Masterson philosophy… all women are whores. You don’t have to split hairs about what she’s getting for spreading her legs; she’s always expecting to get something. Viewed this way, the only difference between getting married and having sex with a prostitute is the length of the contract, the terms of payment and the overall cost.

    wife = whore
    whore = wife

    I now see the act of having sex with bar girls as simply a short term, low-cost marriage.

  20. @ Jase – yes ‘whore’ is a strong term so maybe I should amend that to say that women will use sex (or the suggestion of it) to obtain ‘security’ of some sort – where they don’t it’s either because they already have the security they need or because they believe they are insufficiently alluring to pull it off

  21. An old, overweight guy walks into a bar & orders a drink. He looks around & goes up to the most attractive young women in the place. She is truly stunning. He asks her “Will you have sex with me for a $1 000 000?”

    She looks at him & replies “Yes”.

    The old guy the asks “Will you have sex with me for $100 000?”

    She thinks about this for a while. Remembers the bills that need to be paid & the new car she would like. Eventually she answers “Yes”.

    The guy then asks “Will you have sex with me for $100?”

    The young lady is insulted at this proposition & angrily asks “What sort of girl do you think I am?” to which the man replies “We have already established that & now we are just negotiating the price”.

  22. I actually bumped into this girl last night and started chatting. She gave me her new number and told me mr Japan is still on the scene

    Also i forgot who commented, but this girl was no 2bit model, she was a genuine Miss Thailand contestant who had a shot at competing in Miss universe and came 3rd. I had dinner with her and 2 of her fellow model friends the other night. I had the horn but i hid it discreetly under the table. She actually paid the bill for all of us. Thatnk you Mr Korea

  23. Also a great point about Miss Jersey marrying a hedge fund manager.
    Take footballers wives. Would they be with there guys if he was a bricklayer in Blackburn? Would they bollocks. Granted there are a few outrageously hansdsome footballers that could get any girl they want in the world, but there arent that many, These guys are punching way above there weight on the girl front. The 50-100k GBP they earn a week must boost there appeal

  24. YP, if I had as much cash as David Beckham I would consider marrying (or even simply banging) Victoria a punishment. I would rather take the role of a bricklayer pulling a stunner from RB4 😀

    BTW: Very nice post. Hope there will be more to come.

  25. @ pmmp – I know the very promo girl your talking about. Id fuck her 7ways to sunday and have no issues with parting with my hard earned into the bargain.
    Can you make me a booking for me? obviously ill throw in some commission for your efforts

    I was chatting her up last week and your barman tucked me right up by talking about my girlfriend therefore fucking up my chances of spraying my. Sack him. She was gagging for it i knew she was.

  26. fucked up my chances of spraying my gentlemens gel all over that figure hugging dress and face of her*****

  27. – Smitty: I’m talking about the situation where the guy does not live in Thailand but send money to the girl, like this jap guy in YP post.

    We all know what the girl does while the guy is away.

  28. With the same ease as the question ‘are all women whores’ is posed here, let me ask, do all men cheat on their wifes/GFs? It surprises me time and time again that farang men have a twisted sence of moral skewed in a way it fits them best. Wouldn’t you expect those so-called whores you’re using are as cunning as you are, I mean they have learning material at first hand, and after all it is easy money or otherwise, convenience, for them. But hey, dr. Teenkaas is just a scholar, and instead of all this cocky self-serving theorizing here, I suggest you take it from someone in the know, her name is Lon, and she wrote a book about these, and other matters. It’s called Only 13. Don’t worry, it has pictures. Recommended read for all twisted morals.

  29. Wow! Interesteing to see all of the bloggers coming out of the ether when things get a bit close to the bone. We (3 am
    igos) are just trying to learn..since 2006…No twisted morals with us!

  30. Either sack him or i go back, ring up a big tab, punch him in the face and run away as fast as my little legs will carry me before he kicks me to pieces

  31. This is the world capital of “blurriness” or “grey areas.”

    I suggest a basis for trade – cash or equivalent paid within a month. Money for shopping, 100,000 per month for a single session each month, or cash in the purse while she is in the shower – all money for sex.

    Now take the sum total that such a woman is getting laid each month, and those which are sex for money.

    Less than 20 percent of her sex sessions, a part timer.

    Forty to sixty percent, a full fledged working girl.

    Eighty percent and above, a respected professional. A member of the union, a skilled tradeswoman.

    All work as prostitutes.

    The rest of the female population are longer term value investors; with several men on the go, they are hedge fund managers. Others actively trade in futures; if they drop their horizon into the spot market, they too are whores.

  32. In the strict sense: whore = woman who sleeps with men as a profession.
    In a wider sense, all women since the beginning of humanity have traded sex for security and comfort, duh. Between the two, endless shades of grey.
    It would be interesting to know to what degree are the posters here influenced by the fact that they belong to a Christian culture (even if they are not necessarily believers).

  33. I like this Bulgarian expression. “All women are whores apart from our mums, but remember they are still girls”.

    It all depends how they go about it for me. There either gold diggers or looking for a good provider. My mind is made up by the feeling I get by the girls towards me.

  34. I was chatting with a Thai girl online and told her a joke.
    What does Wife stand for? Washing Ironing Fucking Etc.
    To my surprise she replied “I can do all that”
    That’s why I love em.

  35. YP,
    Excellent post. The fine line between models and hookers in Thailand is same in the rest of Asia, in that it is very thin and blurred. Models / Movie actresses can be had for a price either as dinner dates or high end shags and many agents double up as pimps.
    Know of several of these ‘model’ types in Thailand, and to them it is just a way of earning more money or upgrading their SUV’s.

  36. A model was caught out by the tabloids in the UK just a few months ago.

    She is a UK TV personality, model, girlfriend of high profile soccer stars and recently a Coke snorting Whore for 10,000 pounds LT.

    Thats pretty much ruined her career. She was doing it to upgrade her house.

  37. So everything negative I have heard about Sex Tourist in Thailnad is true. I dont even know where to begin.
    “All women are whores” Yeah. If you hate women just keep it to yourself. How is that any different then saying….fuck I dont know “All black guys are thieves” This comment would make me a racist asshole wouldnt it. Is this a hate site?

    And I have gathered that alot of the regular commenters are upper class white collar types that at some point married a money grubbing, trophey wife that distroyed permenatly his ablilty to trust women.

    Fine shit happens, so instead of learing from the experience and maturing from it, maybe taking your time and being more careful before you get into a seroius relantionship again.Do This: brand all women as whores and move Thailand. Perfect well done.

    Dr.T, The english version is ” My name Lon, You like me”
    But no chuavanist Sex Tourist would read it because makes them sound like bad people or losers.I think its a better first timers book then Privite Dancer.

    Funny story, good post.

  38. Young Royal – that is a Romanian expression 🙂 I heard it there first.
    Kalon Man – just read an article about the stars P4P scene in Pakistan. Same thing: TV newscasters, actresses, all can be had for a price.

  39. Nice post YP. The discussion here made me think of a joke I heard a few weeks back….

    A son asks his dad the difference between “theoretically” and “realistically”.

    Dad says “That’s tough, but I have an idea…..go and ask mum if she’ll sleep with the milkman for a million quid”. Mum says yes. Dad says “Now go and ask your sister if she’ll sleep with the newspaper boy for 2 million quid”. Sister says yes.

    “Well there you go son, there’s your answer. Theoretically we’re sitting on 3 million quid, but realistically we’re living with 2 sluts”

  40. What’s the fuss all about? We are all O’s when you really think about it, we are all getting what we want in exchange for the deed, whether it is coin, coo, security, etc…, and it is all nat-ur-al. At least in the T, it is more upfront than in the W, so less games IMHO.

    Chris: Classic, I love it!

  41. The trade off between the sexes in nearly all species, and certainly humans, is the male provides (security, food etc.) in return for the opportunity to procreate (ie fuck).

    Some women want many dates, lots of lies, presents and even marriage before they reciprocate. Some simply want some baht, and some appear to not want anything. Most often, the last category prove to be nearly as expensive as the first!

    One of the great joys of LoS is the ease with which you can meet up with attractive members of the “baht only” group, but they are most definitely not the only ones who want something in return.

  42. Julian, could be, I work with a lot of Bulgarians and they told me the other day.

    I’d like to know where the other one comes from “If it fucks, flies or floats, rent it!” does anybody know? I got a feeling it was Prince Philip but it could be older.

  43. Of course all men cheat on their wifes, except dr Teenkaas (from Holland I presume).

    And yes, even a male chauvinist sex tourist like me read “My name Lon”. But I wouldn’t recommend it.

    IMHO Most Thai are opportunists and I can’t blame them.

    Funny post.

  44. Indeed a very good post…. I have been living here in BKK for a bit while and it is always the same… they either have worked, they are working or they will work…extrenely difficult to find somebody that never work… but there are some…

    That said the other day I went to Boss Pub with a friend of mine and my GF…and surprise… my friend told me “I am bringing a couple of “sluts” to merry us up” and when I looked … one is my co-worker!!! …. you can imagine her face ….

    This is Thailand ….

  45. You get a lot of fresh produce venturing to Boss and Spicy these days. Well that’s the impression I get from the girls I am chatting to online. A lot of them are just trying to find a farang boyfriend though. Nothing more sinister.

  46. Young Royal, where you meeting this chicks online?

    I have facebook and myspace but my GF tagged me in pix of us together so it fucks my chances no-end

  47. someone on this site suggested using ‘’ – it’s worth a look – suggest you use a slightly out of focus picture as well or even a completely false one – that should keep you safe

  48. yesman: I’m constantly amazed at how truly sensitive you are.

    You asked a question that deserves an answer:

    “All women are whores” Yeah. If you hate women just keep it to yourself. How is that any different then saying….fuck I dont know “All black guys are thieves”

    The first difference between the two should be obvious… not all black guys are thieves, but all women are whores.

    Secondly, saying that doesn’t mean I hate women; it’s simply a recognition in very blunt wording of exactly what most women would tell you: they’ll tell you that what they want is (fill in the list) security, companionship, etc.

    They will generally acknowledge that what men want is to get laid.

    Men will supply what women want in exchange for sex.

    Since a whore sells sex, all women are whores. It’s all quite simple really.

    My mother wanted family and security, which my father provided. Dad wanted to get laid, so he gave her what she wanted. Mom was a whore, like all women.

    Doesn’t mean I hate her.

    Hopefully you now understand why your question was flawed.

    You then made an observation which needs to be dealt with:

    And I have gathered that alot of the regular commenters are upper class white collar types that at some point married a money grubbing, trophey wife that distroyed permenatly his ablilty to trust women.

    Fine shit happens, so instead of learing from the experience and maturing from it, maybe taking your time and being more careful before you get into a seroius relantionship again.Do This: brand all women as whores and move Thailand. Perfect well done.

    You’ve made a classic rookie mistake here by mis-labeling the possible responses to having your heart and wallet torn out.

    You suggest that the mature thing to do is to take your time and be more careful the next time around.

    With your sarcasm, you imply that it is immature and childish to brand all women as whores and move to Thailand.

    Here’s the way it really is:

    Children live in a world of fairy tales and happily ever afters. Adults understand that the world is made up of shattered illusions and broken dreams. Children believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and eternal love. Adults know that none of these things exist.

    Therefore, the childish response is to take your time and get into a serious relationship again. This indicates that you hold on to the childlike fantasy that ’till death do us part’ means you are signing on to happiness for a lifetime and beyond. The continuing belief in flying reindeer and true love that lasts forever are signs that you are unable to learn and grow into adulthood. In fact, it may be a sign of insanity, since Einstein told us that the very definition of insanity is doing the same thing in the same way but expecting a different result.

    The adult response, on the other hand, is to understand that the failure of a marriage with the subsequent heartache and loss of wealth is not an abberation, but the way of the world. The adult response is to learn the nature of men and women; that men crave sex, and women crave security, and they willingly trade on a daily basis. Armed with this understanding you can see that a wife is just a long term whore and a whore is just a short term wife.

    As previously stated, the only thing that varies is the length of the contract and the payment terms.

    Once all this is understood there is only one logical course of action. Take away the sarcasm, and you have nailed it on the head:

    Brand all women as whores and move Thailand. Perfect! well done!

  49. I would just like to point out, at the risk of getting off message, that women are perfectly capable of enjoying sex for sex’s sake..

    Last time I was in the UK, as an example, I ended up sleeping with a farang girl I met in the pub – she insisted on paying her own way, and even bought me breakfast the next morning.

    She didn’t get any money off me, I didn’t buy her any drinks, or spend any money on her at all. I went back to her place (actually her parents’ place – as I found out upon meeting them in the morning), so I wasn’t providing her with a luxurious hotel room either. No security was provided, since she knew I’d be back in Thailand in a few days time.

    I guess if anyone was the whore in that scenario, I was. A night of passion with BBB for a bacon buttie and a cup of tea. Bargain.

    Conversely, if that girl had been looking for a husband/boyfriend rather than a shag, I’m sure I’d have failed the audition. Fortunately for me and my nong chai, she wasn’t.

    And no, she wasn’t fat.

    Situations like the above are certainly the exception to the rule though, at least in my experience.

    I’d love to know why ‘yesman’ always gets so sensitive about these posts though. Some issues there?

  50. YP – There are a lot of ways to punch above your weight. My finest year of babes BY FAR was one I spent in Germany/Austria/Hungary playing guitar for a living. I was dead broke and blind drunk most of the time but I couldn’t miss. Gotta love the stage.

    Straying further off topic, my last trip to BKK I banged one of the hottest white girls I pulled in my life. Czech software developer, nice face, off the chart body, on her first international business trip and absolutely gagging for it. She was deathly afraid of the city so I showed her around and we had a great time, sadly she wanted to go to the beach and I had my hotel booked for the whole time I was there.

    Pity the single farang woman in that town.

  51. My finest months of punching above my weight were when I was a personal trainer at a gym in Penang. I was the only white guy there and in my best physical shape. It was like shooting fish in a barrell.

    For the younger guys, the most popular way to meet young thai girls online is hi5 by all accounts although i never used it. I met my now GF through myspace, and have had about 6-7 really good pulls from there, but my GF and her mates all use it so its impossible.

    Iv heard stories of offers of P4P from the smoking hot perfume girls in Central/Robinsons and other department stores aswell

  52. Last time I was in BKK I had my ‘jaw pathetically open’ moment one day when I was headed to a movie at the Scala cinema in Siam Square. I don’t know who they were or what they were doing but it was uni girls of some sort, in that definitely-designed-by-a-pervert uniform they wear. Maybe there was a 10% off sale at a handbag shop in Siam Discovery, because that’s where they were headed. I almost turned around and went back to my hotel to weep that I’d never see one of them naked. And I’m guessing the girls inside flogging the perfume weren’t exactly dogs. What a country. Why do I live in NYC again?

  53. Thanks for humoring me werewolf.
    Your tone that I am naive and childish was fine and helped make your point but having spent a good portion of the past 6 years in North- East Africa and Afghanstan I SURE AS FUCK dont have a fairy tale version of reality.The world is one unfair shitty place and few know that better then me.

    This “All women are whores” stuff just comes off as a defence mechanesism.And smells of trust issues with women.
    Which I dont have.

    “loss of wealth” Marry a chick that makes more money or the same as you do. Or one that wont try to take you for everything you have if it dosent work out. But this is of course a childish idea.Because all women are whores.

    Saying that women only have sex to secure money, security or compainship is a little much. Its my understanding that women have orgasms when licked right and from what I can tell, seem to enjoy it. I could be wroung on this though. It’s possiable that all the women i know are unfeeling and calculated but I wouldnt give them that much credit.

    “the mature thing to do is to take your time and be more careful the next time around”
    This is not a stupid or childish thing to do or say.

    “men crave sex, and women crave security, and they willingly trade on a daily basis” Sex on a daily basis, I was under the impression you had been married before??

    I must come from a different social and economic background then most guys here because most women I know have careers and there own money which they dont need a husband to attain.Infact if it wasnt for guys having dicks they would have little need for guys at all. I mean this is 2008, not the 1930’s. Westren women nowadays can take care of themselves and if they cant find one that can.

    I am a sensetive guy ar’nt I. Chicks dig it.

    FYI…I am just pretending to be a sex tourist, I am really a overweight white women with an MD in women studies from a thrid rate univirisity.I hate that you guys dont have beg me for dates anymore is all.

  54. Yound penfold you didnt feel embaressed getting caught in a establishmant full of hookers, with the clear intant of banging one?.Thailand eh.

  55. Way to go Yesman! Agree with you that in today’s world, women have careers and their own money — and they don’t have to wipe their kids’ bottoms and snotty noses when they can easily have hired help around. And yes, if it weren’t for men having dicks, we would have survived and been a world of Amazons.

    But hey, Amazons still need men to procreate — except in the far-distant future when we’ll we delivering babies out of a petri dish 😉

  56. What a storm…. good work YP. BTW I am using Tagged as I seem to meet friendlier girls on there. Facebooks just doesn’t feel right when you approach a girl. Whereas Tagged is more casual. Hi5 I just can’t bare the childishness.

    What’s the difference between a Whore and a Bitch?

    A Whore will sleep with anyone and a Bitch will sleep with anyone but me!

  57. Oh, I think even neo-Amazonians would need to keep men around.

    At least until someone invents a chocolate dildo that ejaculates money.

  58. Lets drill it down a bit more shall we

    I met a girl, take her for a first date to a slick restaurant, polish off a bottle of wine and a few cocktails then onto a club.
    Over the course of the night i drop say 6k baht all in………. Low and behold at the end of the night im upto my nuts in guts

    If id of taken her for noodle soup and a can of leo by the side of the road would i of got lucky? In this instance i dont think i would

    If it wasnt for the cash i laid out id of ended the night pulling myself off with a can of chang in front of the TV

    So inadvertently i paid for the pleasure. Wasnt as direct as a ‘shopping trip’ or a ‘gold necklass’ but when you strip it down, thats what happened

  59. The fact that traditionally its a man’s role to be a provider does not make ‘all women whores’. I like a bit of casual misogyny as much as the next man but ‘all women are whores’ is too far. Lets face it, a lot of the men who move to Thailand or visit regularly have failed with women, or don’t get as much sex as they would like or deserve, in their home countries. So they head East where their money and their white skin is a leveller. Then they tell themselves all women are whores to make themselves feel better about paying for it, and that even if they were married or in a relationship ‘they’d be paying for it anyway’, or ‘paying more’.

  60. milo – i totally agree. based on some people’s comments here my ex wife is a whore, my ex gf in hk who used to live with me who was not working for a while is and every time I take my girl to lunch makes her one too. utter BS

    The word is overused and what should guys, even myself, be called for partaking. something worse?

    The reality is life is a little different here and is tough to explain.

  61. Well said, Milo. This discussion is on fire. I have never heard that my mother has been paid for sex (and I know she has not!), therefore I would never dare to call her a whore. I have a fuck buddy here in Holland, she is a good friend and we have sex on a regular basis. I never have to pay her, we are good friends, she is not a whore….. Why? Because we both choose to be free to do what we want, without the restrictions of a relationship. If I can, why can’t she? When I am in Thailand and BF some girl at a bar to take her to the hotel for sex, then I am paying for sex with a whore. I know many girls who don’t do that, are they whores too?? No!
    I am not a seasoned sex-tourist, but when I am in LOS I don’t feel bad about it since I am paying for something that is hard to get back home: beautiful Thai girls with the soft skin, almond eyes and the lovely smiles. Yes, they are whores.
    I don’t get this ‘grey’-thing……paying for sex means paying a whore…..whether it’s legal or not. It’s pretty clear to me!

  62. p – true to a point but I dont think what we are saying is the girl in the go-go is not a whore or prostitute but there are some gray areas.

    I think they have been brought up a few times.

    I meet a girl out. I pay for drinks. Dinner after clubbing. She comes back to my place. we get it on. Hell – let’s even say I give her cab money cause I live in lower suk and she lives in bang na and the trains are done and over with.

    some people will say she is a whore. a prostitute.

    That I don’t get.

  63. Paraquat – its sensible attitude not to feel bad about paying for it in Thailand. But this isn’t only because you are forking out for something ordinarily unavailable, but also because of the ‘twilight zone’ effect on conventional morality you get here. Also, even in a go-go situation whores don’t necessarily behave the way you’d expect a whore to behave, ie nuzzling your neck and cuddling you for the price of a ladydlink. Its this that can sucker you in…

    Smitty – the dinner, drinks and cab money girl is definitely not a whore. Not unless she is a freelancer who likes you and is fucking you for free…

  64. Smitty it totally depends on how the girls go about it. Gold digger vs Good provider vs Up for Fun. I know some girls that have never worked and don’t think what they do is bad but, they’ve quit there jobs and in there words on “Standby” for the phone to ring and a Farang to whine and dine them, then it’s not ok. If there looking for a a good provider or just up for fun It’s ok.

  65. Okay, let me put the jokes aside for a minute and talk about what I really think.

    Slapping labels on people is convenient, and in some situations even productive, but the pejorative connotations of words like ‘whore’ ‘hooker’ and ‘prostitute’ make it easy to ignore the humanity of the women we are talking about.

    Smitty talks about ‘shades of gray’ and ‘twilight’ and I acknowledge that this is all true. It can be true anywhere, but especially here in Thailand.

    But honestly, all this talk about defining whether any particular girl is a good girl, a prostitute, or something in between bores me (go ahead Cheapo, I deserve it).

    The fact is that they are people. People who are trying to get along in the world. Sometimes, part of getting along in the world means trading their bodies for what they want or need. Personally, I don’t have a problem with it at all.

    I think where things come off the rails here in Thailand is that there is a huge cultural divide between Thais and Farang.

    This may be too simple an explanation for such a complex topic, but here’s where my head is on this one…

    In the world where I grew up, money and love don’t mix. Any connection between the two brands the person receiving the money as some kind of a whore and the person paying the money as either a customer or a sucker.

    This is deeply ingrained, so that we (the white guys doing the paying) worry constantly about the connection. If it’s direct, she’s a hooker, making me a customer or sucker. If there is no link, then I can feel confident that we have a ‘relationship’.

    And that’s important to me, because if I’m paying a hooker I feel like I’m in control. If I’m in a relationship, that’s cool too. But when I think I’m in a relationship, but I’m actually paying for it, then I’m a sucker.

    The “gray area” is caused by the billions of situations where the link is indirect or uncertain. Then we get the “is she or isn’t she?” questions.

    Thai people, on the other hand, grow up with the concept that love and money are inextricably intertwined. When you love someone you support them (and their family). Having a link between money and sex (or if you prefer, money and love) is *normal* even in very healthy relationships.

    Thais, then, are puzzled about the apparent need for Chinese walls that we farang want to build to divide sex/love and money.

    We farang are shocked to find Thai women rather openly expecting support (even if that support is simply taxi money) when they open their legs.

    So we spend time and energy agonizing over the definition of a ‘hooker’, and we write blogs and comments and magazine articles aimed at defining when she is and when she isn’t. All so we can make sure we aren’t being played for a sucker.

    It doesn’t really matter.

    Here’s the real truth from my point of view:

    No matter what her circumstances, the girl you are looking at is a human being filled with hopes, fears, goals, dreams and desires. Whether you sleep with her, pay her for sex, talk to her or walk right past her, you need to confront yourself with her humanity.

    Personally, I know many women in Thailand, from modest school girls to business managers, to bar girls, to housewives. Like everyone in the world, they are all different. But you’ll find that even the most hardened bar girl can be reduced to tears over a misunderstanding, and that the life she has today was built by her based on her best idea about finding her way forward towards her dreams. And I doubt that her ultimate dream was to be a bar girl.

    It seems a waste of time to worry about the definition of a hooker. I jokingly (twice) offered up the idea that all women are whores to make the point that — in the end — there’s no use carrying on these discussions, whether short or lengthy, about what makes a woman a hooker. It’s just a label, and one that has even less meaning in Thailand than it does back in my hometown.

    My assertion that ‘all women are whores’ (including my mother) was intended to make the point that all women (in fact all people) are driven by their dreams. The point was not to make you think about your ex-wife or your mother as a whore, but to get you to think about the whore the same way you think about your mother; to think of every one of these women as someone living life the best way she can.

    Is she a go go dancer? A service girl? An office worker? A model? An actress? A flight attendant? A cashier at 7-11?

    It doesn’t matter. My attitude pre-dates my move to Thailand, but especially here there’s no reason to get all hung up on the question.

    This entire discussion, in my view, is driven by men’s fear of being played for a sucker. My advice is to stop being so egocentric — it’s not worth worrying about.

    Concern yourself with the girl’s humanity… with her hopes, dreams and fears (whether you know what they are or not isn’t the point… the point is to simply acknowledge that they exist) and you won’t worry about whether she’s sleeping with you because of your charm and prowess in bed, or because of the dinner and drinks, or because of the 2,000 baht you handed her at the end.

    She will have her own reasons and that should be enough.

    Relax. Enjoy yourself. It’s Thailand.

    Mai pben rai.

  66. WW: Decent way to enlighten (although my initial reaction to your 2nd to last post was negative for about 30 secs till I got it), I was beginning to think we were on a World message board and no one had ever been to Thailand.

    Read between the lines people, if you can’t do that try some shrooms please. Yes, it’s deep, even deeper than what has and will be discussed here, but it’s people and life, accept and embrace it.

    Actually, if you are reading this on this board you should be one of the biggest Ho’s you know. I’m a man-whore/male slut and I admit it, but worse I don’t get paid. (I wonder are there sluts that love sex like we do and get paid (in some way) for it under the gray areas and hey it is the world’s oldest profession, don’t hate on Mary M.)

    Everything is relative and everything doesn’t appear as it seems, especially in the T.

    Personally, I would classify a “whore” as someone tatted up, on drugs, looking scary on the stroll in the Tenderloin (SF), or pick your favorite local Ho stroll in the US (think of chicks on Cops), but that doesn’t mean I hate them or think of them as not worthy of love just because I wouldn’t do them, even if they paid me.

    On the other hand, in the T. none of the women despite their place of employment/line of work or decisions about sex in exchange for something, even if just mental, are at that same level, so to me a TWG is not the same as a whore even though they are all O’s at some level. (Did I confuse you? If so, have another shroom, and no Chang, Som or Lao Khao don’t count, but it could help.)

    The bottom line: The culture is just so much different that we cannot look at it within the same frame of reference we inherited up until we were semi-enlightened. Thailand is Nirvana on earth, right?

  67. bkkkris –

    Nice comments. It is different and so hard to describe but u do a nice job of it. A reader sent this in and I will post it here – it adds to all this a bit:

    On a backlash from some of the negative comments on thai girls, I wanted to say something I witnessed a few years back at Don Maueng Airport – Pause,

    oh the memories – back to the story. I was sat outside smoking prior to departing LOS. A minute later a stunning thai girl came and sat near me with her disabled farang boyfriend. He was severley disabled, not able to talk proper, strapped into a wheelchair. My first thought was how beautiful she was! The next thing I noticed was how many farang were looking at the same scenario, but sniggering or tutting their dissaproval. Her farang boyfriend was obviously happy and was trying to talk to her in the best way he could. Bear in mind his best speech was close to grunting. But what really struck me was how intently she was listening to her boyfriend and how caring she was being with him, wiping his mouth and generally caring for him which Florence Nightingale would of been proud. I wondered how her boyfriend had got here taking into account his disabilities and right on cue another young farang and his thai girl appeared. All hell broke looose as the disabled guy saw his friend and the four were all together like long lost friends catching up etc. Okay, my point in this is yes, hookers, paid for blah blah blah, but tell me a UK hooker who would of behaved in this way?

  68. Ok, this maybe oldfashioned.

    But is there anyone else here, who thinks that by reading this story here, many comments and many others, how on earth anyone can ever meet in Thailand some woman who is interested in marriage, has never sold herself in clear or “gray” way and once in marriage, wont cheat on you. If even stepping into an apartment building the office girl is ready to jump into sack with you and cheat her bf just like that…

    Actually wont cheat on you while dating either. And you wont cheat her either…

    To me, all this talk, i have tried to neglect and push this thought aside, I am finally getting feeling there really aint woman in Thailand who does not sleep for exhange of goods! That is just ridiculous feeling I know, but damn, maybe it just is the nature of this blog that this kind of stories accumalate and does not represent anything but a very small minority of Thai women??? Right? Please say so!

    And I dont want to hear the bullshit how marriage is just legalized prostitution and what not. Just hear me out, and think things in the “traditional” concepts of Europe for example about relationships just for a minute…

    (Yes, I enjoy paid sex too, but not when having gf or never thought that the ladies I have had paid fun with have been working for Accenture or something or studying in university on their other time…)

  69. kevin –

    u have to look in other places and probably have to date girls that won’t have sex with u either. bkk has it all. the kind of girls u speak of are not who yp is looking for.

    I think u can find what u want but u have to be picky, date a lot and probably meet some pretty boring girls who are looking for marriage.

    no easy answers here but yes they are out there.

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